SquidBusters Archive - New Bike/Rider enigma???

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New Bike/Rider enigma???
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Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

Hello everyone, i'm a noob here....forum and riding.

I have been reading several websites, doing research on bikes for newbies, and just asking advice. I pretty much know I want to get the new 650R. I have friends and family who suggest getting a bike around that, or lower. Me being me I want something I won't quickly out grow, and then I can keep it a daily commuter, and get another bike for a strickly fun bike, when I get the miles undewr my belt. A friend of mine is also looking into getting into bikes (he convinced me to do it), and he asked an experienced rider for advice on what to get. He was told that getting a bike like a KAW 636 (that's what he wants) would be bad because he would out grow the bike??!!! Now that is contrary to everything i've been told from several people, and what i've read numerous times. He suggested that my friend get a 900cc bike, because of the weight of the bike, and that it would be easier to coner in one versus a 600 because of the weight! I didn't say anything cause my friend is one of those guys that won't listen to any other advice when he's dead set on something. So I just shook my head, and thought to myself, he's going to kill his self! What is this guy talking about, I want to hear from other experienced riders. From what i've read the newer 600's are very squirrely in the handling dept., and are beast! Now i have a cousin who has been riding for about 4 years, he has an 02 ZX-6 with a new 636 motor in it. He wants to get a 900 because he like to ride high in the mph, crazy fool! He even told me that a 900 is not for a beginner. The guy told my friend that because of the power to weight ratio, and how much torque these new bikes have, that the 636 will be harder to control than a 900. Someone please shed some light on this for me, please!

Posted by: VonKujo

Well, who ever your friend talked to is not an experienced rider. An experienced rider would know that even a 636 is WAY to much. You are on the right track with the 650R. Don't follow in your friends foot steps and you will enjoy the sport way more. You will be a better rider then your friend before you know it. Other bike I would suggest are the SV650/S or an EX500.

A smaller bike is always going to be easier to ride. If you start on a liter bike and you have no throttle control you are going to reck. You have to turn the throttle 1/4 of what you have to turn a 600cc bike to get the same power. And the 600cc bikes are just as fast as the liter bikes these days. I will leave it at that because I am sure alot of people are going to chim into this thread.

Hang out on this board and listen to what people tell you here. No one will lead you wrong and you WILL be a better rider for it. Also when thinking about $$$ for a bike. Remember you need money for gear. DO NOT ride with out gear. If you can afford a new bike like a 650R then you can get some JR gear.

Posted by: oldetymebiker

http://www.squidbusters.com/sb/showthread.php?t=4672

Posted by: JohnC

I'm gonna break this up a little, because I think this deserves a number of different responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

I have been reading several websites, doing research on bikes for newbies, and just asking advice. I pretty much know I want to get the new 650R.

Not the worst bike you could have picked, but I personally think that's still too much bike for a newb. On the other hand, at least you're not thinking about a 600 (or larger) supersport machine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

I have friends and family who suggest getting a bike around that, or lower. Me being me I want something I won't quickly out grow, and then I can keep it a daily commuter, and get another bike for a strickly fun bike, when I get the miles undewr my belt.

Decent plan. My personal favorite for a newbie machine is a Kawasaki EX (Ninja) 500, preferably a used one. I think it fits the description you mentioned perfectly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

A friend of mine is also looking into getting into bikes (he convinced me to do it), and he asked an experienced rider for advice on what to get. He was told that getting a bike like a KAW 636 (that's what he wants) would be bad because he would out grow the bike??!!! Now that is contrary to everything i've been told from several people, and what i've read numerous times.

How "experienced" is this rider, I wonder? My guess would be that he's got a couple years under his built, and thinks he's an expert.

A 636 is a bad idea, for sure, but not for the aforementioned reason. A 636 is a bad idea because it is very unforgiving to error.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

He suggested that my friend get a 900cc bike, because of the weight of the bike, and that it would be easier to coner in one versus a 600 because of the weight!

Nope. Smaller, lighter bikes are infinitely easier to handle. Want proof? Go to a track day, and watch guys on 600s pass guys on 1000s in the corners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

I didn't say anything cause my friend is one of those guys that won't listen to any other advice when he's dead set on something.

Then most likely the "experienced" rider he asked was someone just like himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

What is this guy talking about, I want to hear from other experienced riders.

Just to establish credibility, I've been riding for over 20 years, and have both street and racetrack experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

The guy told my friend that because of the power to weight ratio, and how much torque these new bikes have, that the 636 will be harder to control than a 900. Someone please shed some light on this for me, please!

The guy is an idiot, to be blunt. Most of your modern 900cc sportbikes weigh in pretty close to the 600s, and have more torque, and more horses, so for a newb, they're going to be harder to control properly.

I hope your buddy lives to tell of his adventures. Neither of the machines he's considering are a good idea.

Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

Thanks I new that guy was full of it. From what my friend has told me about teh guy, he's supposedily an experienced rider. He has a custom race ike he has built, and all. I mean it was common sence to me that what the guy was saying didn't make since. But since I don't know squat about Sport Bikes and just didn't say anything, because he probably would've said, well i'll listen to him over you! Since we've been talking about getting a bike, taking the MSF course, etc. I've been doing heavy reading, I know he hasn't so I tell him what others like yourselves say. The other day he was strongly considering a used 636 at a Honda dealer. The salesman told him to get it, that he can learn on any bike, it depended on the person and how they rode the bike. I knew that was BS, and was like I don't think so, and was man you're just trying get a sale!

Posted by: VonKujo

What is your friends age? If he is lucky the insurance company will keep him off that bike...

Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

Quote:

Originally Posted by VonKujo

What is your friends age? If he is lucky the insurance company will keep him off that bike...

He is 33, and i'm 27. We just went to a KAW dealer at lunch, and I made sure he told the saleman there what that guy said, and the salesman laughed, and said you must have a death wish! He said that bikes are similar in weight so that arguement is null/void, he said it was liek a 30 - 40lb difference, and that a light bike is easier to manage in a turn. He said the torque on liter bikes are not for beginners, and he said get a 600cc and down. So now he's looking a KAW ZZR, and they had one freaking 650R in there that they just got this week...in black like I want it. It was the first time I saw one in person and sat on it, and man pictures don't do that bike justice! Too bad I won't probably get a bike to the end of the year. So I might end up getting an 07 if I can't find a left over, or used 06.

Posted by: natrona848

ummmm 600cc is not a beginner bike (talking zzr/636) type here, if you're friend hasn't changed his mind yet, tell him I said he's a real dumbass. Oh, JohnC covered it all along with the others, stay away from that "experianced" rider.

Posted by: Tanstafl

FWIW, I'm 29, 6'2" 180# and have put 14500 miles on an 04 Ninja 250, roughly 80% of those miles commuting to Philly, backroads and interstate. So I started riding at the age you are looking to start now.

From the beginning, I've averaged 50 mpg, paid 300 a year in insurance in a high insurance premiums area, and the only time the bike lacks is when I've taken a girl two-up. And then it's because of all the quick shifting

.

EX250/EX500/SV650 are all the way to go like already mentioned here, you'll be a better rider when you're ready for your next bike.

Posted by: neebelung

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

We just went to a KAW dealer at lunch, and I made sure he told the saleman there what that guy said, and the salesman laughed, and said you must have a death wish!

Be thankful you have salesmen with brains in their head around there. Around here? They'll talk you into the biggest cc, most expensive bike they can, even if you point blank tell them you're not ready/experienced enough (just had a salesman trying to talk me into a GXSR1000 a few weeks ago even when I told him I'm not that experienced, and not ready... *eyeroll*

Posted by: MilleRrrr

Ok here is my typical Noob statements

Take the MSF Course

Get the gear (leather jacket, Full helment, gloves minimum) a fully perforated leather jacket is good to 85deg as long as your moving, after that temp everything is hot no matter what. This is gonna cost you $400-$1000 for anyting worthwhile

Get these two books. They will take you the next step after the MSF. Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II and Lee Parks Total Control (?) With these two books they will teach you insights into riding that you would have never thought of and you will improve 10 fold over a year. Riding is more a mental sport than anything else.

As for bikes, if your not a nitwit, get what you want but don't overdo it (aka 1litre bikes) The 650r will just get you there a little faster. If you don't like your bike your not gonna ride it. Total HP is not everything, I know guys that can outride me (in the twisties) on their 500ex and I am on my Aprilia and I am not a slow rider.

PS your gonna drop your bike, even if its just in the parking lot. OEM Plastic is very expensive.

Ride ride Ride, that is the only way to get better. Country riding is much more satifying than highway, city riding. Ride 5000 miles before you start to really push yourself. You need to train your muscles to ride the bike natrually and not think about shifting gears, braking, looking through turns, etc. On the street you always ride below "YOUR" 70-80% level not mine.

Posted by: Oxi-Rider

Personally, I think that in addition to Millerrrr's post, a used bike is in order for you. You don't know if you will love this sport, and you don't want to swallow the 1st year depreciation of a new bike. You are new, and chances are you will drop the bike. Be it while riding, god forbid, or just manuevering it in your driveway. I have done both within a month of getting my first bike. Nothing is worse than a brand spanking new bike crashed in your driveway with all of 200 miles on the odometer. You can get a used bike, similar to what you are looking for, for cheaper, and looking just as nice. Some people will go so far as to tell you to get a beater as a used bike. I tend to agree with them, except, as millerrrr stated, you have to love your bike so that you ride it and learn the sport. Used bikes like SV650s are right up your alley. Take a look at them. See that you can get one for $2500-$3500 LESS than a new 650R, and still just as shiney. Remember to factor in some gear with your purchase, a helmet alone can go anywhere from $140-$700 depending on features and name brand for a decent one. Leather coat, riding boots, gloves, riding pants, it adds up quick. It is an investment. And, while you may never get the money back for your gear if you choose that this sport is not for you, you will get some of it back over ebay. But, if you buy a used bike in good shape, and decide that riding is not for you for whatever reason, you will be able to turn around and sell that bike for almost no loss. Just food for thought.

Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxi-Rider

Personally, I think that in addition to Millerrrr's post, a used bike is in order for you. You don't know if you will love this sport, and you don't want to swallow the 1st year depreciation of a new bike. You are new, and chances are you will drop the bike. Be it while riding, god forbid, or just manuevering it in your driveway. I have done both within a month of getting my first bike. Nothing is worse than a brand spanking new bike crashed in your driveway with all of 200 miles on the odometer. You can get a used bike, similar to what you are looking for, for cheaper, and looking just as nice. Some people will go so far as to tell you to get a beater as a used bike. I tend to agree with them, except, as millerrrr stated, you have to love your bike so that you ride it and learn the sport. Used bikes like SV650s are right up your alley. Take a look at them. See that you can get one for $2500-$3500 LESS than a new 650R, and still just as shiney. Remember to factor in some gear with your purchase, a helmet alone can go anywhere from $140-$700 depending on features and name brand for a decent one. Leather coat, riding boots, gloves, riding pants, it adds up quick. It is an investment. And, while you may never get the money back for your gear if you choose that this sport is not for you, you will get some of it back over ebay. But, if you buy a used bike in good shape, and decide that riding is not for you for whatever reason, you will be able to turn around and sell that bike for almost no loss. Just food for thought.

I totally agree with you, both of you. I've already been doing alot of reading on the net for gear, and used bikes. I've also read "The Pace" and article on a site I found. I'm going into this with a level head. When I get to the point where I have the funds to out right buy a bike, then I shop around for my gear (Helmet, Gloves, jacket, Boots) and get that out of the way first. I've looked at the SV650's and io like them alot, but not more than the Ninja

Honestly I think i'm going to wait until the begining of the year to get a bike, so hopefully I can come up on a used 06 650. I've considered the 500, but I really don't like the appereance, even though it will be a learn bike. I actually want a starter bike that I can keep as a commuter, and later on get another more shinier bike.

I've seen alot of people quote cheap prices on the SV's but i can't find them in my area! And ebay doesn't help! But thanks again guys!

Posted by: Falcn

Hey we have a copy of the pace stickied here on this website - no need to go elsewhere!

Posted by: penst8grad

If you don't mind waiting, used bike prices tend to plummet once the riding season is over. Right now is the most expensive time of the year to buy. What you save by waiting could go a long way to cover the price of your gear for the same $$.

Posted by: VonKujo

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

(Helmet, Gloves, jacket, Boots)

Add pants to that list!

There are many options out there from over pants you can put over you jeans or shorts, textile pants from Icon (and many others), or full leathers. Don't just ride in jeans. They will only give you about an inch of slide protection.

Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

Okay update on my idiotic friend! The guy who was filling his head with all that nonsense let him ride his 900 hundred this afternoon. He was giving him pointers and what not, now this fool has it in his head that he wants a "heavy" liter bike, over a "light" 600! I can't tell this fool anything, the guy was trying to fill my head with that crap. He kept saying that you won't know until you ride one, I didn't want to get on it, I just watched. So dude showed him how to operate a bike, but he doesn't understand that he doesn't know how to ride a bike. I just shook my head at him and laughed! The told me that I would get tired of a 636 cause they're so light, and would want a heavier bike. So I said let me get this straight, I would get tired of a light powerful bike, so I should move up to a heavier even powerful bike? D@mn I just don't understand, I mean i'm no expert, and this guy has been riding for 13 years supposedly, so he's taking his word for it. Not doing his own research on helpful forums like this, or really learning what these bikes can really do, or really researching gear( $100 is good enough for him!), or really researching the cost of maintanence for certain brands and classes of bikes. The only thing he's done is looked up where they hold the MSF course in my area. I just don't know what to tell this fool, i'm not saying anything else. He get's mad when I strongly object to it, he acts like i'm challenging his manhood or something! But like my mother always say, "a hard head, makes a soft @$$".

Posted by: Falcn

Well Kudos to you for trying to point them in the right direction.

Natrona wishes he had gotten a literbike instead of his 636 - especially after talking to a squid on last Sunday, right Eric?

Light bikes rule - why you want a HEAVIER bike just because it is heavier is beyond me.

Posted by: HillsRider

So, according to this "expert", I should be able to pass anything on the track with my Busa? It's heavy and has just about enouth HP... Look out Rossi, here I come!

Posted by: JohnC

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIR NUPE A LOT

So dude showed him how to operate a bike, but he doesn't understand that he doesn't know how to ride a bike.

You have discovered motorcycling's most elemental truth.

Posted by: natrona848

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcn

Natrona wishes he had gotten a literbike instead of his 636 - especially after talking to a squid on last Sunday, right Eric?

Gawd, I'm such an Idiot! How could I have been so stupid, damn all of you riders out there that know what you're doing and who told me to start small! If I had not have listened I'd be the man on a rashed up 1k with 3" chicken strips. FOOLS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mangeldbug

Sigh...well what Falcn said. Kudos for trying to show your friend the light. Sounds like he is going to have to learn the hard way (god forbid).

At least he is going to take the MSF. He is going to take it, right??

Posted by: SIR NUPE A LOT

^^Yeah he's taking before/when he gets a bike. We went to the KAW dealer again, and the salesman(different one this time) told him if he had to have a sport bike as a first, go with the 600, but he suggested the 500 over that. But he said starting off on anything above 600 is suicide, because you don't have the skill, coordination, basically everything you need to know as an experienced rider to handle a beast like that. He then went into all kinds of stories with us, on his riding experiences, and how if hadn't been riding for 11 years, he would've really messed himself up if the few avoided accidents he's had.