Steve told me about this one last night, he said the article is in the Feb. Sport Rider (I *need* to get a copy).

THe TwinStar (company name) Thunderstar 1200 TDI (bike name) is based on a 3-cylinder turbo engine from a car called the Lupho

Nice pictures of the bike here:
http://www.vw3literlupoclub.com/120...motorfiets.html

It makes ~ 100 HP, and 170 ft-lb of torque in bike trim.
and from what I can tell weighs ~460 lb wet.
The system is intercooled.

WP Suspension front and rear, Ducati 1000SS (I think) swinger. PFM brakes...just a nice prototype all around

Get this - 2.5L per 100 KM
or in English
94 miles per gallon
with the 18L or 4.75 gallon gas tank that gives you:
~447 miles to the tank - probably including reserve.

OK - HOW CAN THIS NOT CATCH THE OEM's ATTENTION!!!!
What a cool bike, and just imagine it with some handlebars and decent ergos and you have yourself one freakin MEAN ASS sport-tourer that can eat up the miles.

In the original car, the VW Lupo 3L:
from: http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publ...ticle_319.shtml "The 1.2-litre three-cylinder engine under the hood is the first diesel engine from Volkswagen (and the first diesel direct injector) to have not only its cylinder head but also its cylinder block in aluminum. At just 220 lbs. the three-cylinder TDI engine is one of the lightest diesel power units for passenger cars period.

Because of inherent design issues with a three cylinder design, Volkswagen used a balancer shaft to qwell vibrations and the result is an extremely smooth engine. Injection is via pumpe duse high-pressure unit injector elements arranged in the cylinder head and driven by the camshaft. The higher pressure permits a more efficient burn with improved performance and economy.

The 1.2l TDI also utilizes a Garrett turbocharger with variable-vane turbine geometry. At high revs and high load, the duct directing the exhaust gas against the turbine blades forces the variable-vane blades open to increase flow. Correspondingly at low-rpm's the vanes close to produce a smaller surface area with virtually no lag - it is almost like having two turbos in one package.

The 1.2-liter TDI has an output of 61hp and a maximum torque of 140 Nm (103 lb-ft) is available between 1,800 and 2,400 rpm. A pre- and main catalytic converter, together with exhaust recirculation, keep pollutant emissions down to an extremely low level."

With a chip change, they also state that the bike puts out 120 hp and 250 ft lbs of torque!!! Can you imagine?

I think that thing is simply awesome!

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-Steve

Egads why would you need more than 170 ft-lb of torque in a bike that small?

Oh and I forgot to mention it is a direct injection fuel delivery system - and the transmission seems to be a dry clutch design (see the pictures).

Cost? Relaibility? Cost is probably kinda high, but reliablility is probably great. But, what about emmissions? I decent performing diesel may not pass Euro spec, or upcoming US standards...

Of course I'll get one.

If it never makes it to the states, maybe I'll contract Patracy to build a bike using the 1.9 TDi from my Jetta wagon when I retire it.... Of course I'd have to take the engine to stage III, 150hp and 300lbs of torque

My only gripe with the VW TDi is the Variable geometry turbos they currently use. I'm getting boost spikes of 24-26psi which is just too high, but I'll take care of that shortly.
VW should have stuck the the traditional waste-gated turbos found on my old 97 TDi. Simple operation, more robust, and no problems with boost spiking.

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09 Schwinn

Neat bike; great for pulling stumps out of the back forty, or cruisin' down the backroads, but with all that torque, you could put it in a reasonable sized sport touring rig and still have enough oompf left for whatever accessories you'd like.

I like diesels...I currently have a Dodge Sprinter (really a Mercedes) van; 2.7 liter turbo desiel, 11000GVW, tiptronic tranny w o/d...right now I get about 28-32 MPG fully loaded, and it's not yet broken in, and it's faster and quicker than my old 350 CHev truck that gave me 8-12 MPG.

Advances in desiel design and engine management have made them more and more acceptable for everyday use...mileage, quietness, tractability and throttle response have all improved. Variable nozzle or variable vane turbos have helped a lot for "off the line" response.

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I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made the horn louder.............

When everything is coming your way....you're in the wrong lane.

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

I like that bike, its pretty neat. I wouldn't think it would have any problems passing emmisions, I believe they are different for diesels anyways though.

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Even the Ninja must run....in the face of a Hurricane.

I want one!

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Ben

Neat concept. I bet it's geared to the moon with all that torque. Probably sounds like...well, a dump truck! Anyway, the specs are impressive. We'll see where this goes.

MIke

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"V4's RULE"
1997 Honda VFR750....RED
1982 Yamaha XT250....RED
2008 Mustang GT....RED

Keith I doubt it has any problems passing emmissions in Europe - the built it in the Netherlands, but out here in this part of PA there are no emmisions inspections for diesel powered cars and trucks, and of course not motorcycles.

I can't find any hard data on the system, but they could include a cat in the exhaust to help clean things up, like on the Lupo car donor.

Diesels just poop out their bad emmissions in bursts, you know, the diesel stink. I just assumed that would be a hurdle. Of course, Ray's TDI is a efficient running diesel, and I don't know what would stop it from being built I guess.

Maybe its a slow revver? little turbo lag as well?

I dunno, I haven't read the review article in Sport Rider yet, but it makes that power pretty low in the rev band, it's a diesel. I thought Steve said that it was making that torque by 5300 rpm. The variable vane geometry of the turbo helps reduce turbo lag (so I hear).

yeah, there's no emmission regs for diesels here in PA. My friend legally removed the cat converter on his Chevy diesel truck. Something about diesel emmisions fall back to earth more so than gas engines. That soot never makes it up to the ozone, or something like that. That's how these trucks and get away with dumping tons of black smoke while accelerating.

Mike

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"V4's RULE"
1997 Honda VFR750....RED
1982 Yamaha XT250....RED
2008 Mustang GT....RED

I found some numbers online:
80 HP with 165 ft/lbs of torque at 4500 rpms
120 HP with 250 ft/lbs at 5500 rpms with remapped electronics

I don't like how big the engine is, size-wise. I LOVE the concept of a diesel engine bike. The gas mileage is insane! Waaaaaaaay too much torque for my liking.

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I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death.

If today were perfect, there would be no need for tomorrow.

Right MIke, the emmissions of diesels are actually particulate matter...tiny hunks of carbon...soot. The bad emmsions from regular fuel are a lot more carbon dioxide and other oxidized chemicals. The soot sinks within a couple days, the carbon dioxide rises and has a half life in the ozone of almost 70 years!!

The torque numbers sound awesome (for pulling stumps) I just wonder if it takes a while to rev up to 4500 rpms?

I like it. Everyone would say WTF is that?!?! Well they do that to me now, but not with as much cool factor.

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Michael

The US Marines were looking at KLR650's converted to diesel as a scout vehicle.... I know there is a one-off HD FatBoy that is converted to run on soybean oil...

1/2 of Europe is driving diesel cars - I have no idea why in this country they are not popular, lot of misconceptions.

I think a diesel Goldwing would be sweet...

A diesel Goldwing would be VERY practical. Taking tours on one tank of gas...

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I refuse to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death.

If today were perfect, there would be no need for tomorrow.

Yep.

But with fuel prices going up (they will again this summer) more people are giving the diesel another look.
They are not the slow, stinky, smoky beasts a few decades ago.

But only VW and M-Benz are offering in passenger cars
Jeep is offering a M-B diesel in the liberty now (trial run) which I think is way cool.

2007 will bring the low sulfer diesel fuel. Currently 1500 PPM going down to 15 PPM

The higher quality fuel *should* open doors to allow the hightech diesel engins used in Europe to be run over hear.
They simply won't run well on the crap fuel we have here.

Diesel technology has jumped by leaps and bounds in the past few decades, emissions will continue to improve and hopefully we will have more diesel vehicles to choose from in the future.

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09 Schwinn

Yup, low sulfur emmissions are right around the corner...and we have the patents on the removal!! Woo Hoo! Anyway, if you pay attention, the price of diesel is up, actually 25 cents a gallon more than premium around here. When the gob-ment manates the added costs of sulfur removal, the prices will go up more, my guess is significantly. This might be a reason some car companies are reluctant to offer diesel passenger cars.

25 cents over premium

It's just the cost of premium here. $1.99
It always goes up in the winter because of the demand of home heating oil. It settles back down the the cost of regular during the summer months.

I wonder how much more the low sulfer stuff will be

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09 Schwinn

Yeah but at over twice the range of most bike, $0.25 over premium is not that bad of a deal!! I'll pay $12-15 to be able to ride for 450 miles.

I like the concept. I'd even ride one, but I have huuuuge fears from the kinda power that thing puts out. I'd love to be able to test ride one to see how it feels though and the 150mpg is awesome. I've got a copy of the magazine at my house.

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Around here the diesel is usually 10-15c cheaper in summer and the same amount more in winter, so it basically balances out.

Diesels don't put out the same levels of CO2 that gas engines do, but they do put out more NO2.

I can't wait for the clean diesels, especially in my bike!

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Ben

Hmmmm...with that much torque and such a low rev ceiling, a diesel with a CVT tranny would make a perfect match.

__________________
"V4's RULE"
1997 Honda VFR750....RED
1982 Yamaha XT250....RED
2008 Mustang GT....RED

The more I read about diesels, the more I like them. The US got turned off to them with the crappy ones Detroit put out in the 70's. I'm sure CP could tell us about the great diesels of europe. You can buy a Nissan pathfinder euro version that gets between 40 and 50 mpg. The bride and I looked at the CRD liberty, but got a Grand Cherokee because of the space. If they made a CRD grand cherokee we'd trade in tomorrow.

Next truck will be a F-250 Diesel or a Ram 2500 Diesel.

My understanding of the emissions is more related to the fuel. In 2006 we're switching to Low sulphur, ULSD, which will allow cat converters and then diesels will be 50 state legal. Right now I make Biodiesel for home heating, but if I had a diesel vehicle I could pour it right in and never go to the gas pump again!

So yes, I like and if affordable I'd buy the bike.

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That's my plan too.

My plan, too... Or, when Nissan comes out with the Titan Heavy Duty diesel........

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-Steve

A titan Diesel would be sweet. Cause you know the Japanese Diesel would outpower the American Diesel - just like basically all their gas engines of the same size do....

I've read that a CRD Grand Cherokee is on the way, possibly already available in Europe.

My dad has a Powerstroke, and it is incredible. Used the Power Programmer III to add about 50hp and 100ftlbs, and it is a real monster when you get it

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Ben

My old roomate worked for a landscape co and drove the 'stake body', crew cab Ford F450/550's with the power stroke. Pulling a 30' construction trailer full of mowers and equipment and 2 yards of mulch in the bed that thing would haul serious @ss.

It was like the trailer wasn't even back there.

I've also seen info on electric bikes - there was a cruiser that had like 20 car batteries as the power source. Nice thing about electric motors is you get max power almost instantly - talk about acceleration.

I wonder if the Thunderstar would run on Biodiesel?
http://www.squidbusters.com/sb/show...light=biodiesel

Now looking at the pictures of the bike a little more closely I see a turbo or two? in the backside of the engine, with the shock body pretty close. I wonder if that would effect the performance of the shock at all because of heat?

It should run on Bio-diesel.

There are plenty VW TDi'ers using Bio-diesel.
Most are running 20%
Those that run 100% have taken loss in MPG return.

Only one turbo.
I don't think heat should be a big issue.
In my old 97 Jetta TDi, I'd only see exhaust gass temp's in the 300-500 range just past the turbo under regular driving conditions..... got up the 1200 powering up the smokymountains in TN.

Since the engine olny has to haul around the bike and rider compared to a 3000 lbs car, I would think EGT's would be very low.

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09 Schwinn